24. Getting ready for Veganuary.

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HOST (Voicover): Hello and welcome back to the Animal Friendly podcast.

It’s December, which means we’re coming up to one of the biggest festive celebrations of the year.

It’s not what you think - I’m talking about Veganuary, which takes place during the month of January but its influence is now extending through the whole year. 

#Veganuary has been viewed more than 1.1 billion times on TikTok and many retailers now say that Veganuary is a bigger event than Christmas.

So if you don’t know what Veganuary is, or you’ve heard of it but aren’t sure what it entails, you’ve come to the right episode.

Veganuary is a charity organisation that encourages and inspires people to try veganism during January and, in fact, any time throughout the year.

You sign up with just your email and they send you a starter pack which helps you to learn about veganism. There are meals plans and a celebrity recipe book which has a wide range of ideas for different types of meals.

They also send you an email every day during the month and I love these – they’re so funny and friendly. Every day they’re different, with infographics and recipes or links to videos or cool vegans on social media.

These are emails that you look forward to opening.

And while it started as vegan January – Veganuary – you can participate at any time of the year and people do, all over the world.

I had the pleasure of speaking to Sandra Hungate, the U.S. director of Veganuary.

We spoke in the month of November, when things were well under way on the lead-up to this awesome vegan celebration.

HOST: Is this your busiest time of the year, or do you have a busiest time of the year?

SANDRA: Oh, we have a busiest. It gets busier every week from, starting I would say, mid-September? And then January seems the busiest, at least for me, because that's when actually a lot of the interviews and things happen. More like the live ones. And we also have to do the work on top of...like, you know, managing things that are still coming in. But December is also pretty busy because that's when you have to really sieve through all the last minute opportunities that come in. And then some of them, sometimes, we just can't even, like follow up anymore because there's so much going on. And even actually, sorry, even January sometimes, there's some people who still reach out and ask if we can do something and we're like, oh, we're sorry, we're so...it's not...we're so overfull right now, we can't anymore (laughing).

HOST: That's a good complaint, to be too busy and too popular, that's good.

SANDRA: I guess. I guess.

HOST: So, let's start from scratch and would you like to introduce yourself?

SANDRA: Yes, so I'm Sandra Hungate, I'm the US Director of Veganuary. I'm an animal lover and I became vegetarian...I was vegetarian for seven years, uh, started at my 21st year and then I have now also been vegan for 8 years.

HOST: Okay. And how did you go from vegetarian to vegan.

SANDRA: I actually had been wanting to be vegan since I was pretty young but I couldn't find enough information to make sure that I was going to be fine, healthwise. Everyone was always scaring me, even for being vegetarian, so it was really difficult even as a vegetarian sometimes when people were making me doubt, like, if I was fine healthwise. But then I found a friend when I moved to the US, who was vegan, at a vegan breakfast event, and she was really nice and I was like, you know what, I actually, I really want to be vegan and I don't have anybody that I can ask questions to, and she was so excited and was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to show you everything. I will show you the grocery store, I will show you the one vegan restaraunt that we had in that city back then and it was great. And then she also invited me then to volunteer and to become active so I also got to volunteer through her and met so many wonderful people that I'm actually now getting to work with. Because they were already working in the movement and I was volunteering with them back then. And now they are, you know, somewhat of a colleague because, with some of them we actually worked on some projects together.

HOST: I was going to ask how you ended up working for Veganuary so I guess it was a progression through different jobs?

SANDRA: So I was working in a sustainability field for a long time. Like changing behaviour, getting people to think more sustainably and, you know, the impact they have on the world, which touches, you know, my overall life mission. I was always wondering then how can I use my skills in the vegan space? And I never really saw the right match. Like, a lot of the job descriptions were using other terms that I didn't think I knew how to do when they were saying fundraising, and things like that. It took me a while to realise that actually it's just different words to say kind of the same. It's just that it's non-profit so they fund-raise, they don't 'sell'. And I was marketing and selling in my job and - and in the corporate outreach we were calling it partnerships. Or like, you know, it was just different terms. After I was more aware and understanding more the space slowly I was realising, oh, actually, I do have the skills. And so, many of my friends knew I was interested in moving into the vegan movement. And one day, a friend sent me this job, US director of Veganuary and he was like, that sounds like you. And I was like, yes, that it very true, it does sound like me. And so, ya, everything after that happened and here I am.

HOST: I really love that you brought that up because that's something I'm really interested in too. You know, in one place, it's called fundraising, in somewhere else it's called marketing. And sometimes people in the non-profit would think marketing or selling is, like, oooh, it's very bad, it's a dirty word, but it depends what you're marketing. Or what you're selling. You know? You can be doing good things in the world and marketing is just telling people about what you're doing.

SANDRA: Yes, exactly. Ya, it's ahm, it's just about putting out the message to a different audience and asking them something different. But at the end of the day I was always asking for people to change something in their life, and so it is still very similar.

HOST: And certainly Veganuary seems to have gone from strength to strength. How do you find the difference now in the last few years, in the way it's grown?

SANDRA: I only joined about a year and a half ago but I know the numbers. That they continue to grow every year in all the countries I believe. It's just that they saw that the UK model was so successful, maybe I can tell you a little bit about how Veganuary started?

HOST: Of course, yes.

SANDRA: And so, it started with two people, two British people who were already vegan and they wanted to make a bigger impact so they got to thinking - while they had their full time jobs - they got to thinking. They were working in Matthew's kitchen - Matthew and Jane are the founders - in Matthew's mom's kitchen...because, you know, it was like their savings that they were using to build this. And they thought, oh, maybe we can get 1,000 participants the first year. And they actually got 3 times that. And then they just got so many surprises, oh, support from celebrities and just it took off in such big ways that after, I believe it was the fifth year, they realised, okay, we could try probably this model in other countries. And that's when they started other chapters like in the US and India, and Germany. And now it is, it's about in 15 countries and we also have...some are staffed by Veganuary teams and then others are partner organisations like animal rights or vegan/vegetarian organisations that run the program. So we're a little bit all over the place. Like we're also in Switzerland and Australia, Mexico, South America, so it's become really huge and every country is also adapting it a little bit, because there's different messaging are going to maybe work in different places. So it is the same overall program, the same strategies, but also then also some of the messaging might sometimes differ based on the different countries, which is so interesting.

HOST: Because you're all promoting the same thing which is...?

SANDRA: We are promoting, I guess, trying to eat vegan but also we are working to create a vegan world. That's the end. That's the vision. But yeah, to do so, we're working with the companies. Like the retailers, the restaurants, the food companies, the people. In the US I'm also experimenting something with cities. Like, how can we get local governments to participate because they also educate their residents often on sustainability, right? Or also even health. And so why not talk about plant-based eating as a way to be healthier or to be more sustainable? And so, we're working with all of those companies that can make an impact. All those organisations can be an impact. And then also inviting as many people as possible to try vegan.

HOST: So, anyone can sign up, can't they? And it's free and...what happens if you sign up?

SANDRA: So, it is free and there's the website, it can also redirect you to the right country if you're logging in and it's saying, oh, actually, there's a program that's closer to you. And then, when you're on the registration page, you just put your name, your email and then you get to choose what date you want to start. Because even though it started as Vegan January, we don't have to just do it in January. People can do it anytime, and so there's people who do it all across the world, at all kinds of times. Like, Earth month is also a big one. And then they will receive a confirmation email that comes with a starter kit. That covers, you know, what is actually veganism? What are the things to watch out, that I was looking for back then, like what are the things you need to make sure you eat for your nutrients. What are the vitamins to look out for and even tips of, like, what kind of questions people might ask you? How to handle being in a party or family event. You know, when...all kinds of things we need to get you ready. And then you also get the daily dozen, which is a checklist of all the nutrients you should be able to check off. Make sure that you are a healthy vegan. Because there's things that are vegan like Oreos or pizza is easy to veganise, but that doesn't mean that is healthy, so we want to make sure that we give the best advice. There's like actual nutritionists that check off our content, or health professionals. And then they also get cookbooks, meal plans. There's meal plans like sports or by calorie count. There's meal plans for if you are into winter food or summer foods. And then there's a celebrity cookbook. Which we're really excited about because we're going to announce some new celebrities that sent us some recipes. So that one has been growing over the years. So there's pages and pages of celebrities who support us and sent us, or donated us these recipes so that people can try them. And then you also get invited to our Facebook group. Where it's by country. You can then join and then there's other participants that are in there. So you can share recipes or questions. And every day after their start date they recieve a daily email for one month. And they are short and sweet, with a little bit of information about health or the planet or the animals. And then each of these emails also have 2 recipes every day and tips. So it's really like, built, so that you learn step by step. There is, as little pressure as possible and then they can take it at their own step or they can choose how far they go, how often they want to try vegan. You know, some of them don't do every day of the month, maybe they're going to say "I'm just gonna do it on Wednesdayst", I don't know. However they want to do it. We just want them to try and give them the support.

HOST: I think I read that somewhere, it's not the vegan police, it's just being helpful and being supportive and sounds like a tremendous amount of material.

SANDRA: It is a lot of material and luckily it was already mostly built when I joined. So I just have to reread through it and update it but ya, it is impressive the work that they put into this. And that was the founders. Like, they really created this programme.

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HOST (Voiceover):

One of the winning features about the Veganuary program is that there’s no commitment or responsibility put onto you when you sign up – you won’t be monitored. All this material is provided for free for you to use as you wish.

I think it’s not only useful for people who want to try veganism but also for…say, if you have a friend or family member who is vegan and you’d like to understand more about their choices and values. This is a great way of learning more about it, without any pressure or judgement. 

I asked Sandra to come on the podcast because I also wanted to learn more about the business side of things – what’s going on behind the scenes that makes Veganuary so visible and so popular?

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HOST: So do talk to me about...how does that work, creating partnerships with the companies?

SANDRA: So we call it corporate outreach. So we talk to companies all year long, because some of them, you know, they need a lot of heads up. Like a retailer. They talk about the holidays, like the Christmastime, in summer. So it's not early to reach out to them in the Spring, right? So we reach out to companies all year long. I mentioned the retailers, restaurants, food brands, to add and celebrate vegan options during January and beyond. But we also contact employers because we give them an opportunity to run the Veganuary programme as a workplace challenge. So there's also a whole set of tools on that front, with templates and quizzes and like, Slack prompts so they can engage their teams. And so there's lots of contacts. So some of the examples from this past January were restaurants like Hard Rock Cafe or Just Salad who launched vegan menu options. Some of them even they called it a Veganuary menu. And then retailers like Costco has always, like the last few years, has written an article or put a recipe in their member magazine to celebrate Veganuary. Buttercross, which is a Kroger online retailer, celebrates by sharing recipes and discounts during Veganuary. Asda always makes these huge in-store and online displays that are beautiful and all the other countries are jealous and we want them too (laughing). Aldi launched new vegan products in several countries. I think in one of the countries, I think it was the UK, there was like 40 different vegan products, in one month. And then brands like, one of our big ones that is like, all across the board, is Ben & Jerry's, they launch different vegan flavours in the different countries so we always get excited about that. So ya, many, many more and just this last year there were over 2,100 new products or menu items launched globally for January, or Veganuary. Then we also had (_____) in some countries that launched Veganuary menus and then there's an additional 300 companies that are the employers that are doing a workplace challenge I mentioned. That also is very exciting because it's all across the board. I think it might have started with food companies but it's like tech companies, and banks, and, I already said software. And then cities. In the US we had the first city participate last year, and it was not the big, like, vegan ones. It was actually a Texas city, City of San Antonio [really?] which was super-amazing, right? And then we also got a city last year to proclaim Veganuary, that was Baltimore, Maryland. So there's always just new avenues that are happening, and it just grows in all kinds of directions which, to me, is just like the most exciting part. Because you never know what's going to come next. Who's going to answer your email next or who's going to knock at your door, because some of them also reach out to us and say, hey, I want to do something this year to participate.

HOST: And I think it's such, in large part, because...the whole Veganuary thing does come across as inclusive and non-judgemental and, you know, you just have done a great job, Veganuary has done a great job of not being scary vegans [laughing]. Just ordinary people.

SANDRA: Yeah, we always said we're fun, non-judgemental and welcoming. And our colours I think also show that. And our imagery. Yes, we just want people to feel like it is approachable and that we're not going to, ya, police them. And sometimes it's funny because, when I talk with the employers they want to be able to share the impact on the environment - and I completely understand that - but then we say, because we're not judgemental and we are welcoming, we do not track peoples' particpation. So we don't ask them, "How many of your meals were vegan this month?" but that means we don't have any data for the workplace challenge to say this is exactly the number of vegan meals that they ate. But that's the beauty of this programme, is that that is not how we go about it. We really just want people to be able to try it and not have that feeling that they have to, be watched or that they have to say, "I'm doing every day vegan." Some of our videos like, in a funny way, that it's okay if it doesn't always work out, at least you try and that's the most important.

HOST: Because in...some people do, they go vegan overnight, we know that. And other people, and I would be one of them and it took me a few months, because I was putting new recipes and replacing and gradually moving...and then I suddenly realised all the vegan recipes was the nice stuff and I really wanted to be eating that. So it was very easy then to let go of the rest. Like, I don't need that. So...

SANDRA: And you said, did you receive a vegan book, is that how you started to try the recipes?

HOST: Yes, well I requested a vegan cookbook and then my mum got it for Christmas for me, so it was slowly over January then...I mean, I knew about Veganuary but I guess...I'm kind of person, I want to do it on my own, so that was just like...and now I know about it I'm sorry I didn't do it that way but same result in the end.

SANDRA: Ya, that's awesome. Oh, I wish I had Veganuary when I was going vegetarian or even vegan because it would have...I guess it was in...it was already in Europe when I became vegan but I didn't, think, know about it back then. Like 8 years ago, I don't think I knew Veganuary. But I was already in the US and it wasn't in the US. But ya, it would have helped me so much just to feel like there was this information that is just like, kindly and slowly given to me and I can learn and I can ask questions too. Like, my favourite part is that Facebook community because that's what I really needed is people, more even sometimes than information. I just needed a place to see others do it too, and then just be able to help each other answer questions.

HOST: And to see that being vegan - because of course a lot of the media likes to portray angry vegans and militant vegans and that sort of thing. So to actually realise that there's an enormous amount of vegan people who are just walking around, doing their jobs, being ordinary. Ahm, it does always surprise me when I talk to people and, I'm like, oh, I'm vegan. And they're going but you're just a regular person. It's like, yup. You don't have to be anything special to be vegan, it's great.

SANDRA: There's all kinds of vegans. We actually are going to release some testimonial videos in January probably, from different previous participants. And they share their story and their tips. And it's all kinds of people, all kind of age brackets...and I just love it. I think that's the beauty of the programme and of veganism, is that it can be for everyone. And there's so many reasons to try veganism. So everyone will find a different reason, everyone will find a different story like where it began. I think a lot of people, they already love animals. When we're little, we love animals. So we start to think about, I think, when we're young and then later we find out all this information and then we can remember sometimes our childhood moments where we thought maybe that it was weird that we were eating animals in the first place. It's just super interesting. I have not yet heard anyone tell me the same vegan journey and I think it's just beautiful. I feel like sometimes, for me because I am vegan for the animals. The health benefits are like cherry on top [bonus] and it's great because I can also talk about those and how I feel in my health because of eating plants, but ya, sometimes, I'm like, but actually that's not the reason, when people ask me. People ask me about the health aspects and then I always try to, kind of remember, ya actually but, even though there's all these benefits, I actually do it for the animals. And that's my main benefit, is really to feel like I am living without guilt, and I am living in line with my values. And so it's always interesting how, there's so much to talk about. Sometimes I think I talk for hours with some other people about all the benefits.

HOST: But it's great. I think a lot of people maybe might be surprised to hear about the environmental aspect. I think they know the health, and maybe the animals, but the environmental sometimes comes as a surprise. The amount of water and various other things.

SANDRA: Ya, that's true. And then the land. I think there's a lot of misconceptions about, like soy, and ya, like actually, most of the soy that is produced is to feel animals. So when planet gets deforested to grow all of those crops, it is not because of vegans, it is because we are feeding animals to feed people. And it just doesn't seem efficient at all. And it doesn't seem to really make sense. But I didn't even know all that, ya, to your point. Even when I was vegetarian and even at the beginning of being vegan I didn't know all these facts. And I still learn every day. There's just so many interestingly odd things that happen, I can just see sometimes I'm like, oh wow, I did not know that but that would also make me vegan again, if I wasn't vegan already. Do you have that sometimes too?

HOST: Absolutely. And I don't think, I've never come across something where I said, oh, well that's...maybe I should stop being vegan. That has never happened. It's always like, oh, that's good, I'm glad I'm vegan so. But never the other way around. I don't think I would even eat meat now, I hate the smell of it. Even if they suddenly said, "Oh, the animals are happy if you eat them," I wouldn't. Coz I don't, I can't go near it now.

SANDRA: It's a habit, yeah. I can see what you mean. I know a lot of vegans who actually also eat any of the meat or cheese alternatives because they have been vegan, or vegetarian even, for so long that they are not interested in that anymore.

HOST: So, do you find that there are companies, like maybe cheese companies or meat companies and they're really interested in making the alternatives. Are they seeing that now as a really growing market?

SANDRA: Yes, there's a lot of companies that are adding vegan options and then, in some of our countries...I remember there was a German company that used to do both plant-based and animal meats, I think it was deli-slices. And last Veganuary they announced that they're dropping the animal meat one and they were just continuing the plant-based one. So yeah, it is often, it seems that they use the vegan option as a pilot during Veganuary, and then some of them are then going to continue to have it, and then also after a while, they actually swap it basically. Which is really, really amazing.

HOST: That must be so satisfying for you.

SANDRA: Yes, we celebrate a lot of things. And it's already kind of happening right now, because we already get all this information about what's going to happen, so every day, or every weekend at least, right now, is full of surprises and then when it comes to December, January, it's like almost every day there's something or several things in the case of all the different countries that we're seeing and celebrating, it's really beautiful. And yeah, the beauty of the programme is that it is free, for the participants and the companies to participate. And the companies can use our logo and our name so that...you know, we really just want to create the vegan world, so we want as many companies to be able to use this as a momentum, because that is really when people are trying veganism. So they can use this momentum to talk about their new ones, and try to launch new ones.

HOST: Have you seen a difference now, because you've been vegan/vegetarian longer than I have. Have you seen a difference over the past, we'll say, 5 years, or 10 years? 

SANDRA: Yes. Oh, yeah. Every year I think it shows how different it is. Not just even the number of options but who is adding vegan options. Like, every year I feel like there's more and the sizes of the plant-based option in the row is just getting bigger. And then it notice it especially also when they update the retail stores or when they build new ones, they often reorganise some of those things. So some stores have been adding the vegan option next to the animal option, and, on top of that, still have a health section, and then within that they have a plant-based section often that is, that is all the vegan options, and it's become bigger every time. I would say every time that they update or every year. And then at restaurants too, it's become so easy. I visited friends actually, last year, I went to Paris - but also even outside of Paris now - people are more aware. But then Germany and the UK are just like, next level. They have so many options, I feel like I'm in a vegan world museum. Like fast-forward in time and I see what the future will look like in the US or in France. Because their vegan rows in the stores are even bigger. It's just beautiful. And ya, one day I wanna go to the UK and Germany during Veganuary because I think it sounds just like it's a huge party. There's so much happening.

HOST: So, do you...do you have to travel around? Or, is it all, kind of online? Do you have to make appearances in the places, in restaurants? Or is it all...are you just working at a desk? At a computor the whole time? Or is it a bit of both?

SANDRA: We're all remote, and when we do the media coverage, most of the time they are okay with a phone call or Zoom like we're doing right now. Except of course if it's local, then ya, I can just drive there and that's fine. But ya, they're pretty flexible, luckily, nowadays with all of that. Because the US is too big, it would be very hard to travel that far and maybe not so great on the environment to go to each of the States that are talking about this.

HOST: That's exactly what I was thinking in my head. I was like, does she spend all January flying around US. No, okay, good to hear.

SANDRA: And luckily, we also have friends and other organisations that also this year, some of the participants are willing to also speak on the media, so I'm hoping we're going to be able to get them to talk about it. We also had a celebrity who was located in DC last year, he was an NBA coach, and he was able to talk about Veganuary on tv in his city which was really, really cool. Like I was saying, every year and every day even, there's new surprises, and so that was super, super great. Because I think that was the first time in the US that we had a celebrity talk on our behalf. You know, like usually it's more like within, or...and we talk about them. But he went on and talked about us, on the tv.

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HOST (Voicover) I wanted to hear a little of Sandra’s own story – how a woman from France began the vegetarian journey that brought her to where she is today.

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SANDRA: I grew up next to the Swiss and German border, so next to Basel, which is a Big Pharma headquarters city. And so I knew about animal and human testing, because they were actually sometimes looking for people, testers. Or people to test with. And I knew people who worked in that space. So I knew all about that. And I really did not like that at all. It really, really, still, obviously bothers me. And so I was trying to buy cruelty-free, which was almost impossible back then. In the US it was already a thing, but in France there wasn't really any cruelty-free logoes or certifications. But whenever possible I did try to buy it. And then I didn't make the connection with the animals in my plate in that moment, even though I was so much talking about the problem that I had, you know, about the animal testing space. I didn't think about it. And then I started to be exposed to these videos on social media, and Meet Your Meat. I don't know if you know that one. [Yes, yes]. And that one is where I really realised, oh my gosh, what is...this is crazy, that this is happening. And so, in my mind, at that point, I had that image of animals are happy on the farm, outside and when they die naturally, we eat them. I did not think to ask myself what happens there? And I grew up in a small town, so there were farmers and they would walk out their dairy cows every morning and back home every night. And they seemed, you know, there were obviously on the grass, so I had that vision and I thought that was what was happening everywhere. But actually, most...over, like, 90% - I don't know how many, depends on the country - over 90% generally of the animals are in factory farms which is completely not green and it is, they don't even see the sunlight. So I didn't know about all that and then I started to think, well, if I buy those that say grass-fed and if I buy local and my parents also were, they were saying, why, it's not like that everywhere so we can just buy more local. And it took maybe a few months and I was like, it doesn't matter. Even if it were true, which often when it says grass-fed, it's just that they are fed grass, they are not actually outside. I then just was like, I am just fooling myself. If I want to not help, or support the animal cruelty, I just need to stop buying anything from that industry. But then, at that point, I didn't understand the egg and dairy aspect I guess. So I stopped eating meat and I was vegetarian and I didn't completely understand the vegan aspect. But I knew from the celebrities that I wanted to be vegan. I just wanted to be the one, the one thing is that you're not using anything animal. But it just took me longer, to really find my answer, like I was mentioning earlier. To just know for sure that it is, that I know how to eat plant-based. Because everyone that I saw, were celebrities who were vegan, and I couldn't ask them. Hey, how should I be vegan, what do I need to watch out for? Because everyone around me was scaring me already about being vegetarian. I had people ask me, like, are you going to become all pale because you're not going to eat meat? I was like, what? I don't understand even the relationship...back then, right, there was almost no...and it's not that long ago, but in France there was not knowledge about veganism or vegetarianism even online. And in the stores it was impossible to find anything, I had to go to the organic stores. So ya, it was interesting and complicated and now I'm a little jealous when I see people who are...surrounded by all this information. Or people who live in my town. I live now in Portland, Oregon, which is one of the top most vegan-friendly cities in the world. [Yaayy]. And I still run into people who say, I don't know, I don't want to struggle when I go to eat out, eating out, and I say, you live in a city that has 50 vegan restaurants, I think you'll be fine [laughing]. So yeah, that is kind of my story in a nutshell. But I remember that when I became vegetarian, I didn't know what I was going to eat. Because there was just like that point that I reached that I just can't handle any more. I don't find any solution, I haven't found any solution yet of how I'm going to be vegetarian but I just can't support animal, like eating animals anymore. So for a few days I just researched and I just drank juice until I could figure it out. And then I figured it out. And I realised I can just swap a few things and make the same old recipes as before and it will be perfectly fine. And when I became vegan it was a little bit of the same. I think, for the vegan part, it wasn't as hard but ya, I was like, oh my gosh, I will have to give up all my recipes. And then I realised, well no, because there are these alternatives, you just swap it. And then in baking it was easy. I just actually removed the egg. I veganised a lot of my recipes myself after just looking online, of what vegan recipes look like. And sometimes there's that flax egg, but often in my own recipes I don't even put any egg replacer and it works just fine. Sometimes I might add a little more fluid, like if it is maybe like a pumpkin bread, I might add a little more pumpkin, and then that's eat. So it is actually a lot easier than I think it could seem from the outside. And it is, I think, because of all those alternatives. And then after a while I was also trying to make my own just to see, what is actually going into it. Because I think it's important to know what you're eating. So if you can make it at home, it feels also more, oh yeah, okay, it is actually an easily made ingredient. It's nothing weird. 

HOST: Cheese was my hard thing. I really, uh, struggled with cheese. I was like, I'll give up everything but cheese. And now I look back, kind of going, wow, you know. And everyone says that, don't...don't beat yourself up. You didn't know, it's okay. Just move on, it's fine. I think... [for sure]. So what would be your advice for somebody now, preparing for Veganuary?

SANDRA: I would say to read the starter kit, it's very, very good so that you can really understand, what is veganism, what are the things to watch out for, and that way you are really prepared. And I think for anything, anything new, when you're prepared, then you're better at it, right? And then, finding a friend if you can or family member. And in fact, in our surveys we saw that over 50% of the people who did Veganuary usually had someone who did it with them. So you have a 50% chance to find somebody who will do it with you, which is really, really exciting. And then having fun is one of our main message, right? It is a fun program. Have fun, try all the new recipes. For me, veganism has been a journey of flavours and experimentation, and I'm still experimenting with new things all the time. And as you've heard already, there's no vegan police so...just don't put yourself any pressure. We just invite people to try. And as you mentioned earlier, the cheese is one of the hardest one to stop consuming, in our surveys. And the reason is that casein triggers dopamine receptors. So it's not that it's the person's fault. It is because there is an actual scientific reason behind it. So I think that one also helps sometimes people to feel a little bit like, oh, okay, it is not my fault, it is actually something that is happening in my body. So you just need a few days, just like anything else like caffeine, or anything. You just stop for a few days and then you will stop craving it. And then there's awesome tips like nutritional yeast to get over the craving. So, lot's of great things. And then, as mentioned, it's not a zero to one hundred approach so just give it a try. And if you want to start to just do it on Sundays that's also fine, just take it at your own pace. I think that's the main tips.

HOST: Yes, that's very interesting about cheese, the casein and the addictive nature of it. Because literally, people say to you, oh, I couldn't give up cheese, I'm addicted. And you're going, yes, yes you are.

SANDRA: But it's not your fault.

HOST: It's not your fault. So that's good advice, that you can get all the stuff beforehand, because it is handy to have some things like nutritional yeast and stuff in your cupboard, then you're ready to go.

SANDRA: Absolutely, ya. When I decided to be vegan I did give myself a deadline, which is kind of like what Veganuary is for. Like, when do you start? And then you put yourself, that date in your calendar and by that date, ideally swap all the ingredients. Like the mayo and the cheese, all these things that are, like condiments and all these things. Because ya, if they are there, then you continue to eat them, so it's good to give you like a few weeks to finish eating them, and then that cut time. And then you will be able to just naturally take the swap and then that will just become a habit and after a few days I think that the tastebuds get used to it. And then the new mayo...this is now mayo. And then that's that.

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HOST (Voicover): Veganuary is free and the reason it’s all free is because of wonderful supporters who donate to keep it going and help it expand.

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SANDRA: And then another great one I wanted to add is that Veganuary's resources are always free, but we are a charity and we rely on supporters. And also, people like you who spread the word for us, so thank you so much.

HOST:That is great too, you can actually support Veganuary, which I think is really nice. Especially if you've kind of gone through it and it's changed your life. I would hope and I would imagine that people give a little back. 

SANDRA: They give it forward, so we can reach new people.

HOST: So you can reach more people, exactly. It was absolutely my pleasure to do this. It was always on my list. Veganuary is so positive, and you are so positive, you are just an absolute beacon of happiness and...you're a terrific representitive. You obviously really enjoy your work and making a difference.

SANDRA: Yes, it is...like, the guilt really fell off. I felt it on my shoulder when I became vegan. And then, ever since then, we're just helping, volunteering and helping really made me feel like I found my mission in life. And so now getting to do it all day long, it's just ya, super, super exciting and makes me feel really good. I found my calling I guess.

HOST: You sure did. You really did. And I'm very happy that Veganuary has you, because I can see how much energy and passion you have for it. So it's only going to grow even more with you.

SANDRA: That's why I'm beaming, because I always love talking about all this, to people who are vegan and also are spreading the word, because that's how we change the world.

HOST: That's how we change the world.

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HOST (Voiceover): To wrap up I’d just like to mention that 98% of people surveyed would recommend Veganuary to a friend and I would definitely add my recommendation.You can find all the information at Veganuary.org and I hope you’ll consider visiting the site and joining all the millions of people who have already had the Veganuary experience. It’s growing every year and it feels great to be a part of it. As Sandra said, the month of January has turned into one long vegan party, and everyone is invited.

That’s it from me, thanks for listening and I’ll see you next time.

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